Shall I Christen this category - Why God?

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    aammondd

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    Shall I Christen this category - Why God?

    Post by aammondd on Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:36 pm

    Before inundating you all with walls of text just a simple question.
    You can also answer why not as well.

    Personally for me the short answer God is the answer to the question of Free Will and my about the true nature of my being.
    My definition of God is similar to the perfect chair however its the perfect self. Elaboration will come later. For now I want to hear what you think.
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    seek14

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    Re: Shall I Christen this category - Why God?

    Post by seek14 on Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:12 pm

    my thought on god.

    The story so far. In the beginning the universe was created. This made a lot of people very unhappy and has widely been regarded as a bad move.

    i read a quote by einstein and some point comparing human knowledge on god to a child in a library of every known language. we know that there must be some order to these things that we cant comprehend. theres to much to take in and will never be able to be understood.

    i dont believe in god, at least not the Judeo/christian god , but i can't say for sure that god or gods don't exist. i don't have any empirical evidence to show that there is no god, and i doubt that science will ever be able to fully disprove god. so i live my life in a way that reflects who i am as a person and i hope that its good enough if there is, and if there isn't ill die knowing that overall i was a damn decent person. my ideas on the subject are a lot more complex than this but this is what i will leave it at for now.
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    alvspr

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    Re: Shall I Christen this category - Why God?

    Post by alvspr on Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:53 am

    Sorry aammondd are you asking for why people believe in God or are you asking a more general question as to whether or not people believe in God or not?
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    aammondd

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    Re: Shall I Christen this category - Why God?

    Post by aammondd on Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:41 am

    Take it how you will. For me its more why your believe (if you do) or not (if you don't).

    For me I have examined my own beliefs a great deal for a long time and I have come to one inescapable conclusion.

    Either I have free will or it is an illusion. If it is illusion then I shouldn't be concerned. However if I do have free will (and I choose to believe so tongue ) then there must be something more than simply physics/chemistry to what I am. That's where my search began with trying to determine what is my "true" self. Long story made short I have found that answer in the God that I know.

    Dinwar

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    Re: Shall I Christen this category - Why God?

    Post by Dinwar on Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:55 pm

    Here's my view: Gods are like electricity to me. I don't know about electricity. I know what it would take, and frankly have no interest in putting forth that effort. So I don't pretend to know it. I dabble in a little--I can wire a plug or a light, for example--but I don't speak about it very often.

    Similarly, the question of gods is outside my area of expertise. I don't personally believe in them, but that's a tentative conclusion; I admit I could be wrong. That said, it's not my concern.
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    DuDZiK

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    Re: Shall I Christen this category - Why God?

    Post by DuDZiK on Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:00 pm

    I am a staunch Apatheist.

    The old forum had a big part to play in that. After spending a lot of time thinking and debating about the topic, and being a believer on both sides of the (general) field, I became extremely apathetic about the matter of God or Not-God.
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    aammondd

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    Re: Shall I Christen this category - Why God?

    Post by aammondd on Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:14 pm

    To any one posting here please note

    Because my belief in God stems from a strong stance on Free Will my position is that trying to "prove" God to someone is not only impossible but a real waste of time. Ill share my reasons share my thoughts but that's the extent of it. I pass no judgments on others but those that they earn through their actions and attitudes. I can disagree with beliefs without being disagreeable.
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    Gregoriouse The Great
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    Re: Shall I Christen this category - Why God?

    Post by Gregoriouse The Great on Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:56 pm

    Friedrich Nietzsche once said god is dead. But, I've been around the cyber world long enough to know god is Zedd.


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    Re: Shall I Christen this category - Why God?

    Post by Dinwar on Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:40 pm

    Gregoriouse The Great wrote: Friedrich Nietzsche once said god is dead. But, I've been around the cyber world long enough to know god is Zedd.
    Not anymore. He's one of us now. Wink
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    alvspr

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    Re: Shall I Christen this category - Why God?

    Post by alvspr on Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:14 pm

    I'm an athiest.  Always have been.  I have an understanding of the world around me and it's kind of hard to put into words.

    If any of you have seen the works of Derren Brown, then you may have an idea of where I'm coming from.

    I don't believe in God.  I believe God/s are man made.  We as a species think them up.  I think Richard Dawkins went into the reasons why human's are preprogrammed to believe in god.

    I also believe religion can be a dangerous thing.  In a very general sense, religion dictating what is taught, what government policies are brought in, in my opinion is not necessarily a good thing.  On a very basic general level, as an example, I don't see what the problem is in allowing homosexuals to marry.  But there is this religious stance that opposes it (I also know of non religious people that oppose it as well mind you).

    Having said that, Religion provides a lot of GOOD things as well.  I certainly don't discount the good things.  I in fact even saw God work.  Years ago a friend of mine was addicted to drugs and the only thing that saved her was her belief in god.  People who are religous may say that that is proof enough - I say that doesn't prove god, it just proves the power of belief.  I of course would not dare dream of taking that away from my friend.  Her belief in God saved her, she is a much better person because of her belief in god.

    EDIT:

    This has been my flow of conversation with believers in the past and please don't take this as being rude (refer to my comments above):

    ME: So the bible is written by man yet the bible says that man is imperfect so the bible according to itself is wrong?

    Believer: Man wrote the bible INSPIRED by god so the bible is perfect.

    ME: But what about Man's interpretation of the bible, if man is inperfect that he is imperfectly interpreting the bible therefore whatever he believes in is wrong.

    Believer: It's called faith.

    Me: Oh...

    So, I am an athiest.  An while I can see the bad things that occur with religion and belief I can see the goodness in the belief of god as well.
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    aammondd

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    Re: Shall I Christen this category - Why God?

    Post by aammondd on Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:44 am

    Well us Mormons,speaking collectively not individually, don't deify the scriptures to that way but I sure understand where you are coming from there.  I can't agree with Dawkins because it opens the door to the loss of free will. If some thought patterns are pre-programmed then where does the programming start and end. Is something not programming just because it agrees with you? I have to reject the programming argument in favor of the following:

    Since there is no place to stand to get an objective view of myself I must choose to believe that I am experiencing what I perceive and that these thoughts are my own and of my own free will. I must accept as axiomic that my choice of thought is indeed a choice and not the result of any other influence or else the very idea of free will is but illusion, and an illusion that again without an objective view of oneself cannot be proven. In fact the very fact that there is no where to stand makes the very concept irrelevant. The very ability to recognize my own existence gives credence to idea that I am a free thinking individual and therefore my beliefs are my choice.

    My complex view of God,reality and so forth are a result of this one fact. The fact that I choose my thoughts, and those thoughts reinforce the fact of my existence, then I choose to think about the nature of my existence. (What am I? and more importantly the age old question "Why me?" Very Happy   )

    The short answer is that my experience has taught me that there is a 'God' for lack of a better term and that His perspective on it all is infinitely greater than mine. That being said the relationship is one of parent and child and that there is significant reason for the similitude in our own parent child relationships. This life has been designed for the express purpose of proving to ourselves the importance and the power of this free agency. Just as any child must learn to make and live with the consequences of their own choices so must we when it comes things of eternity.

    *Fading in and out now its late*
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    alvspr

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    Re: Shall I Christen this category - Why God?

    Post by alvspr on Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:54 pm

    I don't consider it as a total loss of free will.

    I mean, people are predisposed for certain things anyway - such as cancer and illness etc depending on their genes. I don't think it a stretch to think that thought people can be predisposed to certain thought processes.

    Also, I think that we as human beings can't function at 100% thinking power 100% of the time. There are periods of time where we're concentrating at higher levels, such as at work, study etc, but that at other times our brain doesn't function at that higher level, so the brain kind of "shuts off" so to speak, or at least doesn't function at that higher level. What it does instead is travels the path of least resistence. That path of least resistence is when we're more susceptible to outside influence. It's why a lot of televison direct order shows are on late at night lol.

    But just because we might be influenced by marketing etc to make us think it was our idea to buy something, i think it can go deeper.

    Have a look at some of the stuff Derren Brown has done and you'll understand where I'm coming from.
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    aammondd

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    Re: Shall I Christen this category - Why God?

    Post by aammondd on Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:29 pm

    I tend to agree with you but this only reinforces the idea that a free will can choose to override the influences. My point is that free will has to be part of my nature and is not the bi-product of a
    "random happy accident" (ie illusion) . Similar to the line in Contact. "If its just us seems like a lot of wasted space." If this is just it, seems like a lot of wastes of effort. {I could just as easily choose to be happy to let what ever will happen, happen to me}
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    _-Scarlett-_

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    Re: Shall I Christen this category - Why God?

    Post by _-Scarlett-_ on Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:56 am

    alvspr wrote:I mean, people are predisposed for certain things anyway - such as cancer and illness etc depending on their genes.
    Sorry, as a Biologist I have to argue with this thought. Yes people can be genetically predisposed to certain illnesses and cancer, however, environment plays a big factor into whether or not you will be affected, and to what extent.

    I think this can translate into my thoughts on free-will. People are born into certain situations which might predispose them towards a certain lifestyle, but people can most often always find a way to overcome (or destroy) the life they were born into.
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    alvspr

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    Re: Shall I Christen this category - Why God?

    Post by alvspr on Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:56 pm

    Oh i have no doubt of that. Just because someone is genetically predisposed to certain illnessess etc doesn't mean that they can't live their life's to give them the best possible chance to not fall ill.

    Same goes with the whole thought processes.

    My point is that we do have free will but we have to EXERCISE that free will. And that's where a lot of people fail.
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    aammondd

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    Re: Shall I Christen this category - Why God?

    Post by aammondd on Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:40 pm

    I completely agree with that.
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    Gregoriouse The Great
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    Re: Shall I Christen this category - Why God?

    Post by Gregoriouse The Great on Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:38 am

    Dinwar wrote:
    Gregoriouse The Great wrote: Friedrich Nietzsche once said god is dead. But, I've been around the cyber world long enough to know god is Zedd.
    Not anymore. He's one of us now. Wink
    Doesn't change much. Hes still regarded as such.


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    _-Scarlett-_

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    Re: Shall I Christen this category - Why God?

    Post by _-Scarlett-_ on Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:29 am

    alvspr wrote:My point is that we do have free will but we have to EXERCISE that free will.  And that's where a lot of people fail.
    I can definitely agree with that.
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    Galactus

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    Re: Shall I Christen this category - Why God?

    Post by Galactus on Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:10 pm

    Dinwar wrote:
    Gregoriouse The Great wrote: Friedrich Nietzsche once said god is dead. But, I've been around the cyber world long enough to know god is Zedd.
    Not anymore. He's one of us now. Wink
    One of us, One of us....

    As for the topic at hand: God is a primitive man's answer to why. We outgrew god, as a species, a long time ago. The concept of god has hung around because of an emotional attachment to a stone age ghost story, but the questions that "god" was the answer to have been answered in a much simpler, but far more beautiful fashion by man's mind. Science has reduced god to the straws at which the desperate grasp in order to fill in the gaps in their own knowledge. First we moved god out of his position as creator, then we proved that he was unnecessary for the existence of life in all it's various and sundry forms. All that is left to god is the realm of the "spirit", and that is where he belongs. Among the rest of the ghosts.
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    Re: Shall I Christen this category - Why God?

    Post by Galactus on Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:57 pm

    I broke a thread already? Darn.
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    aammondd

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    Re: Shall I Christen this category - Why God?

    Post by aammondd on Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:58 am

    I can accept that it may be a hard wired "delusion" but based on my experiences I would have to reject my own mind to claim it so which puts me in a very precarious position of having to put my "trust/faith" in someone else's interpretation of the facts. If I do that I lose that part of myself that is responsible for my life. It's a kind of paradox. Both scenarios leave me with the requirement to have faith. The first in my own experiences and interpretation and the second to reject them as being what someone else says they are. So if I have to choose a life based on a faith then I choose one based on my own observations. So objectively if its delusion its one I'm happy to choose for there is no place to stand to prove otherwise.

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